Ringzin Choekyi was one of the ‘Drapchi 14’, 14 imprisoned nuns who had their sentances extended for recording songs in 1993 advocating independence and supporting the Dalai Lama. She was released in 2002, and escaped into exile in 2006.
By Luke Ward
Translator: Noryang
Name: Ringzin Choekyi
Age: 36
Sex: F
Where they were born: Dokar, Utsang
Where they live now: Tibetan Refugee Centre, McLeod Ganj
Border Crossing: Dum
LW: Why did you leave Tibet?
RC: I’ve been imprisoned for so many years, and because of the beatings and tortures I have been given, I’m not well. So after coming out from prison, it was hard for me to have a medical facilities and all, it was very hard. Even if you want to go somewhere in Tibet, it’s actually very hard, because they didn’t have much of freedom to move round Tibet, so I had to come to India. Because she was a political prisoner, it was really hard to find jobs. Or they would be different (shading) between ordinary people and political prisoners. So they had to keep people notified about them being political prisoners. She was a nun at Shongtse nunnery. After she came out from prison, she couldn’t go back to the nunnery. It was actually very difficult, even for daily livelihood, because they wouldn’t… since she couldn’t go back to the nunnery she couldn’t even get a proper job. Because even if they go to hotel, they do work in hotel, if the owner finds out that they’ve been political prisoners, they won’t have any choice but to fire them, because if the (options, self-options), the owner would actually get into trouble. Because of all these restrictions and because there wasn’t any much of freedom in Tibet, I had to come over here.
LW: Why did you get put in prison?
RC: I was 18 years old. I was in Shongtse monastery, and for 3 years, she stayed there. In 1990, with another 6 nuns, she want to protest in Lhasa. They were taken to prison, and for 7 years she was to be detained there. That was before, that actually 1990. So on 1993, because they made a song and they put it on tape, so they were, her punishment was increased by 5 years, so 12 years. So she was to be… in 2002 she came out of prison. So now is her fourth year of freedom, and before that, she was in Lhasa, in a home. So outside of prison, outside life, it was very difficult, because there wasn’t any freedom. So before, to get a job, it was really difficult, because it was very difficult to live in that community, I have come to India.
LW: How about her life before she joined the nunnery?
RC: Because her place was quite rural, there wasn’t any education facilities. Because they did farming, her parents were farmers, so she helped with them. When she was 18 years old, she wanted to become nun, so she asked her parents and they went to Shongtse Gompa [nunnery].
LW: How was your journey from Nepal to India?
RC: She had thought of coming to India before, but it was actually difficult for her to come to India because it was a big risk. She met one of her nun friends, and they asked one of the guides for the help, and they had to pay 4000 Chinese Yuan to come to India. So he agreed, so from Lhasa to Dum, he agreed to take them from Lhasa to Dum. From Dum, she was taken to a mountain, and from Dum she was walking for about 8 hours in the mountains. (Interruption – translators mobile phone). And there was a small bridge, and from that small bridge they came to Nepal border, and that man in their party, he took them to Nepal. One of the persons she knew, they knew that person, so he agreed to take them to India, Nepal and all. Because she was weak, she wasn’t very healthy, she was sick and she thought she might not be able to actually make it, but thinking of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and praying for him, she made the journey. She came to the Tibetan refugee centre in Nepal, and then she stayed there for 10 days, and then she was sent to India. It was June, 3rd June when she came in Dharamsala Tibetan refugee centre. Because right now, she is quite weak, she’s actually going to hospital, it would be actually difficult for her to do something right now, but in future if she gets well, she thinks that, she would want to… in the prison they recorded a few songs, political songs because of which her sentence was increased by 5 years. So she would hope to sing those songs, and then make it known internationally (Interruption- someone comes to the door). Because many of the… internationally, many people came to like the song that they recorded in prison, and because many people came over here for interviews and all, she would hope to sing those songs again, and make it…, increase awareness through that song, that’s what she hopes to do. If she gets well, in future, she has the determination to do whatever it would take to serve the community.
LW: How do you find the Tibetan refugee centre?
RC: When she first came over here, because she wasn’t used to the water, food and weather, she actually suffered from many diseases, when she first came over here. Now she’s gotten used to it, and TRC is looking well after her. It’s good in Tibetan refugee centre.
LW: What are your overall hopes and aims for your life in exile?
RC: Her hopes and aims for her life in exile is to get together with the other ’14 nuns’, 4 of them who are abroad.
LW: And one of them is dead.
RC: Six are over here, and 4 are abroad, so she wants to get together, and sing the song again. 7 are in Tibet [I assume she is referring to nuns other than the ‘Drapchi 14’]. Because they stayed in the prison for many years, they are very close with each other, and she wants to meet them as well, and she hopes to meet them, and hopefully sing those songs again.
LW: How do you find the local weather?
RC: She finds it… because in Tibet, it’s all blue [the sky], and it’s very pretty, though it’s cold, it’s very pretty, but over here, because it’s so foggy, it’s very (interruption- a nun starts talking)…. But because it’s very foggy, it’s actually quite annoying.
LW: The fog?
RC: Yeah, because in Tibet, it’s all blue.
LW: How do you find your present living conditions?
RC: As for now she’s getting medical care, and getting money from the Tibetan refugee centre, but doing nothing much.
LW: The Dalai Lama is no longer asking for Tibetan Independence, but instead is asking for autonomy. Do you agree with him?
RC: She also wants what Dalai Lama wants- genuine autonomy. Because, years back, many of the people have protested, and got imprisoned, many have died and now that Dalai Lama has changed his political stance, she’s after Dalai Lama.
LW: Would you move to Tibet if China granted autonomy and the Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa?
RC: She would always go if Dalai Lama goes to Lhasa.
LW: Do you believe Tibet will be free?
RC: So far we have been struggling for free Tibet, for full independence, but now that Dalai Lama has changed his political stand to genuine autonomy, even if we get genuine autonomy, I’ll be satisfied.
LW: Did she know that Dalai Lama had changed his view whilst she was in Tibet?
RC: She heard about it in Tibet this year. Obviously all of us want a free Tibet, but Dalai Lama has obviously our support.
LW: Has she got anything else she’d like to say?
RC: It’s very difficult in Tibet because all the Chinese are doing the good work. So it’s actually difficult for the Tibetans to find a good job. And in prison it was a hard life in there. She actually feels quite pity for China, because she feels Tibet is different, because its so clean and pure and place is very powerful. Because His Holiness the Dalai Lama is actually living in exile in a different country, she feels pity for China. She wants to say thank you for taking an interest in Tibet issue.
LW: Is it ok if I ask her some questions about when she was in prison?
RC: Yeah sure
LW: How did the Chinese guards treat her?
RC: In prison there are Tibetan officials and also Chinese guards and when they want to torture, they, Chinese guards won’t torture themselves, they’ll send the Tibetan guards to torture them. And the Tibetan guards would say ‘We don’t have any other choice, we have to do it, because if we don’t, it’s for our livelihoods. The Tibetan guards who come to torture them, so they don’t have any other choice, they would actually say to them.
LW: What torture did they do?
RC: When we were protesting, not even 15 minutes had passed, and Chinese officials came and when they were putting them in the truck, they wouldn’t put them as humans, they would just throw them as an object kind of thing. And in prison, they would beat each one of them. They would tie their hands at the back, then tie them to hoop, and then hang them up like that.
LW: Where did they tie them- their hands?
RC: Yeah, at the back, and then put them up. There were really giant dogs in the prison, and they would just leave them to attack them.
LW: Were they bitten?
RC:No they were not bitten by them, but the Chinese officials would talk to the dog and they wouldn’t let the dogs bite them.
LW: Were the dogs Tibetan Mastiffs?
RC: It’s called ‘Oli’ in Chinese, but its like… pointed ears. It’s actually a Chinese dog. They electrocuted them on their feet, and they put it in their mouth. And after that, they would feel numb, and she couldn’t really feel herself after that. And you know the cigarettes, they would put on their face. Like that they would bang on the windows.
LW: They can’t sleep?
RC: Actually, they would beat them, and bang them on the windows.
LW: Their heads?
RC: Yeah, and bang them on the windows. And then your forehead would be like, this big [gestures a large size with hands]. And they would make them to put their hand down on the floor, and put their feet up and on their hands, the Chinese would press, put their feet, and their shoes on. [i.e. standing on their hands]
LW: Is this Tibetan guards still?
RC: Both of them. The ones who used to put their shoes on their hands when they were doing it, they were actually Chinese. Like that they would torture them quite a lot.
LW: I was told that the Chinese would force prisoners in Drapchi to read Chinese propaganda, and that if they didn’t read it, they were beaten- is that true?
RC: Yes yes yes, it’s very true, yeah they would do that. They had to insult the Dalai Lama. They would ask them ‘Do you think Tibet will be free?’ and when they said ‘Oh yes, Tibet will be free’, they would beat them all. The Chinese, they pointed at the fake Panchen Lama [Tib: Panchen Zuma], and His Holiness’ recognised 11th Panchen Lama in Tibet, and they were asked the question ‘Which one do you think is the real Panchen Lama?’ and when they said ‘In our tradition and culture, actually the religious lamas, they recognise other lamas, not lay men, so it’s actually the one that Dalai Lama recognised. We will recognise them as the real Panchen Lama’ they would beat them.
LW: How often did you get tortured?
RC: Like, during that time, there is actually army…there were soldiers nearby Drapchi. They would actually call the soldiers, and they would take the big sticks from them, and then three of the torturers step to them, and then they would beat them.
LW: Was it everyday?
RC: When things like that happened, they would do that, not everyday. When they would want them to insult the Dalai Lama, say bad things about them, or when they would say ‘Oh Tibet won’t be free’, they would protest against them. So in those situations.
LW: And when they would protest, they got tortured?
RC: Yeah. And when they said things like that, they would protest, fully. Because they were women, lots of armies would come and they would have to do an army training, and because it’s a very difficult training and many of them are weak, they sometimes wouldn’t be able to do things.
LW: So the nuns had to do army training?
RC: Yeah. So when they were not able to do things, and somebody would actually fall down, they are not allowed to help the person (interruption- someone came to the door). Even if blood would have been covered on their face, they couldn’t help them. They would have to put books on their shoulder, inside [under] their arms- [points to under arms], under here, and they would have to stand straight, and sun would be falling on their face. So, but they can’t move and if a book, when sometimes the fly would come on their face, and they would want to scratch it, but if the book falls down, they would actually get beaten again. In army fields they had to go and take…. Faeces, collect the faeces.
LW: [mishearing- heard faces] They had to collect the heads?
RC: Not faces, faeces, shit [translators explanation]. Everyday, 10 trucks, big trucks. They would take the shit, and they would go to fields, and put it, use it as manure. They had to mix the shit with the piss, and sometimes it would even get in their mouths. And every soldier would encourage that.
LW: Where did the shit come from?
RC: Toilets. And straight after that, they eat, and they won’t get time to wash their hands, they all covered in shit. They would give them food not boiled, or Ting-Mo which are uncooked, and because of eating all that, their abdomen, inside their body, they would fall sick. Usually, they would get food, which have boiled in water, which doesn’t have oil, and non-veg. But sometimes when it’s like Chinese festivals, they would get better food. Because of getting such food, and working and because of the torture, she would fall sick, they would fall sick but then, they wouldn’t be taken to the medical care, they wouldn’t be given medical care, or taken to the hospital.
LW: Is that how the other nun died?
RC: Yeah, she died like that. Because she was weak, and they wouldn’t take them to hospital. In 1998, they protested, and then they were taken to another prison, and they weren’t allowed to visit their parents and visit their family [later clarified, they weren’t allowed visits from their family]. The food was actually very bad, and they wouldn’t give them any soap or any paper, they wouldn’t let them buy any of that. And because the room was attached to toilet, there were flies and all. It would be very bad. They had like, a small thing like that [points to a bin], a basket, for them to piss. But it would actually get full, and then it would just overflow. They wouldn’t let them throw it [out], it would just overflow. There is actually something called ‘jinbe’ in Chinese, where there is a small house, and they wouldn’t be any window or door, it would be dark, and you have to stay there, and you would get a bucket for doing your stuff, and you would get one food a day, and you had to do all of it in that small house, room. She was actually put in that, and they weren’t allowed to visit their family. Ngawang Sangdrol and Phuntsog Nyidron, they were put there for 6 months. In 1998 this was. For many of their friends and her, they put them to maximum 2 months, but a few for 15 days. Because her mother was quite old, and because she wasn’t allowed to meet her mother, they weren’t allowed to meet them, their family. And so her mother, she thought she had actually died, and because of sorrow and all, her mother died during that time. In the prison, their family could only see their face, because there was a small window where you could only show your face, so like that they have been, her parents and her family has been coming and visiting her like that. And when she came out of prison in 2002, her brother and sisters, they came. And when she came out of prison, they wouldn’t talk, and it was because they were just crying. And they said ‘Oh your condition is…’, because she was so weak, ‘it’s not like what a human should look like’. Because she came into home, and got good food and medical care, she has actually become healthier, but back then, she was so weak, it wasn’t like that. Because of Chinese torture, her intestines affected, and her kidney has been destroyed, and there’s actually stone in them, so she’s very weak. She has been going to hospital. Because she hasn’t had any opportunity to study, but now that His Holiness the Dalai Lama advised her to study after getting well. At the moment, she wants to study, but her health condition is very poor. It’s mainly her health that she is concerned with, and the thing… abdomen the Tibetan refugee centre has agreed to help her with the operation
LW: Help pay for it?
RC: Yeah, help pay for it. Tibetan refugee centre has agreed to pay for medical care for the next 6 months, and she has Tibetan medicine.[Interview interrupted and ends]
